#i2p-dev (irc2p) | 2.7.0-4

eyedeekay That mostly agrees with what I am looking at but I didn't have NTCP2 on my list at all, and given the stalemate on 165 was focusing on block/ban mechanics and peer selection

zzz you have fixes for any of that?

zzz any particulars we need to coordinate on?

eyedeekay Not ready yet but I am trying to tame the threat-point inflation in the sybil tool with a couple approaches, partly by capping the total penalty for same-IP threats and partly by applying a bonus for being precontacted

zzz did you see what i said in saltr (yesterday?) about sybil IP checks can't be salvaged?

zzz my conclusion is they can't be fixed, at least not short term

zzz I can tune them for today's attack but not tomorrow's or the next day

zzz but open to hear something different

dr|z3d never got any feedback on my suggestion to assign a random family to every router if it's not already part of an existing family. nuts?

eyedeekay I think that most of the stuff the sybil tool looks at is ambiguously meaningful, which is why it assigns threat points and bans at a threshold

eyedeekay but the current problem with the IP checks is that it's super easy to inject a thousand threat points by putting out fake RI's on the same IP

eyedeekay So what I'm trying to figure out is how to make sure that IP addresses are still meaningful to the sybil tool, but not so meaningful as to override all sense

eyedeekay To me that seems like there could be either a "cap" on the same-IP penalty, or a "scale" of diminishing penalties

eyedeekay Which is general

eyedeekay "Not clones" isn't the same as "not sybil" so maybe the bonus scales to the same-IP penalty

zzz yeah I went down that road too

zzz sybil is by definition heuristic-based

zzz so almost by definition it can be gamed / worked around

zzz my thesis is that sybil was our downfall

zzz our throttles and peer selections were actually working pretty well, and need only minor tweaks

eyedeekay I can definitely agree with that, our most glaring and impactful problem for this attack is the attacker gaming the sybil tool

zzz I have sybil code to check for same ip/port, and check for which one we actually talked to before, etc etc

zzz not happy with any of it

zzz longer-term, maybe, but I'm quite wary of any of it as a short-term fix

eyedeekay So do we just disable it?

zzz yeah, so my proposal is:

eyedeekay There are some Redditors asking for threat point recommendations, I am tempted to tell them to do so

zzz hold that thought

eyedeekay Ok

zzz 1) disable all ip checks in sybil

zzz 2) one-time delete of the sybil blocklist on disk, as it's currently clogged with badness

zzz 3) package of minor tweaks to other subsystems listed above

zzz 4) cut that as a release relatively soon, don't wait for anything requiring a proposal

zzz eot

zzz alternative would be a more ambitious set of changes, possibly including proposals, on a longer schedule

dr|z3d re 2), a button to remove all sybil bans would be handy.

eyedeekay Let's start with your stated proposal

dr|z3d re 4), if getting the release out as soon as possible is a consideration, maybe forego the formal release process and just push an update via the su3 servers.

zzz for the redditors, disabling sybil and deleting the file and restarting is better than tweaking threat points

eyedeekay That's what I'll relay to them

zzz so how I suggest we proceed is:

zzz - I check in 1) and 2), with a bump to -3, because I need a bump to know when to delete the file

zzz - send you a WIP patch for 3) privately for you to review/test

zzz that might put us on a path to get a release out in a couple weeks

zzz FYI the file is ~/.i2p/sybil-analysis/blocklist-sybil.txt

zzz the sybil page button is hidden behind advanced config but they can get to it with a direct link

dr|z3d 127.0.0.1:7657/netdb?f=3

eyedeekay That plan works for me, 2.5.1 could happen second week of may if all goes well

orignal so new release in may?

eyedeekay Point release, 2.5.1 for us

eyedeekay Not an API bump

zzz I do not suggest putting sybil disable stuff in the news, just tell them to hang tight

orignal then we will make 2.51.1 too

zzz but keep working on sybil tweak ideas, maybe we'll come up with something

zzz I'll share more of my concerns about sybil gaming privately

zzz orignal, maybe. You have an ETA on a 2nd draft of prop. 165? That may factor into our plans

zzz eyedeekay, you want a MR for 1) and 2) ?

eyedeekay Yes please

zzz ok I'll work on that

orignal not sure

zzz and then on cleaning up the collection of tweaks for 3), which I'll get to you privately with some explanations

zzz email is pretty broken but I'll figure something out

zzz if this plan holds, I'll want to push susimail search to tx for translation, but that can wait a few days

zzz and the big-changes-in deadline would be over

zzz ofc if there's no proposals implemented and no API bump, there's no need for release coordination between the two projects, go for it when ready

zzz eyedeekay, please don't make any promises in news or on reddit, just say we're working on it

eyedeekay I won't commit us to anything

not_bob I'll poke RTP to post something on his social media when it's time to urge people to upgrade.